WAKE UP AND SMELL THE HEALTH INSURANCE: THE KEY TO TURNING AROUND STARBUCKS

Starbucks has been a model among U. S. employers for its social and
moral responsibility to its work force since its founding in 1982.
Howard Schultz, who founded the company, grew up in Brooklyn, New York
in a hard-working family without health insurance, and never forgot the
plight of working class people struggling every day to make ends meet.
He was determined to build a different kind of company—one that makes a
profit, builds shareholder value, but also has a social conscience
integrated back into the company. As he has said in his excellent book
Pour Your Heart Into It,

“From the beginning of my management of Starbucks, I wanted it to be
the employer of choice, the company everybody wanted to work for. By
paying more than the going wage in restaurants and retail stores, and
by offering benefits that weren’t available elsewhere, I hoped that
Starbucks would attract people who were well educated and eager to
communicate our passion for coffee. To my thinking, a generous benefits
package was a key competitive advantage.”



The Starbucks story has been phenomenal. The company went public in 1992 with a market capitalization of $200 million. By 2004 it was worth almost $19 billion. Its worldwide work force grew to about 172,000 by 2007, and all of its employees in the U. S., even part-time, are offered health insurance with generous coverage. From the beginning, the company’s consistent policy has been to offer health insurance to all employees working 20 or more hours a week (240 hours per quarter). As a result, Starbucks has had one of the most loyal work forces in American retail business, with a very low rate of attrition.

But the writing was on the wall. In 2004, Schultz acknowledged in an interview with Business Week that the company’s biggest challenge to future growth was its health care costs, which by then were costing about $200 million a year for its 80,000 U. S. employees—more than the total it was spending on green coffee from Africa, Indonesia, and other countries. As Schultz said at the time “This is completely non-sustainable”, further noting that companies trying to do the right thing for their employees are paying for the many companies not doing so.

Today, Starbucks is hurting. Caught in this economic downturn, it has been forced to cut thousands of jobs. About 600 Starbucks stores in this country will be closed over the coming year, as well as most of those in Australia. This week, the company reported its first-ever quarterly loss, a net loss of $6.7 million. The company attributes its problems to the economy, increasing competition from fast-food companies such as McDonalds (not known for its health care coverage), and perhaps to its rapid expansion.

All of this is predictable. U. S. employers need a healthy work force, but can no longer afford to provide comprehensive employer-sponsored coverage (ESI). The average cost of ESI is now over $15,000 a year for a family of four, with the employer paying for about 60 percent of that and the employee picking up the rest. All of these numbers keep going up each year by three or four times the cost of living and median wages. As a result, more employers are cutting back on coverage (if provided at all), passing along more costs to their employees, and eliminating retiree coverage altogether (eg., General Motors). It is an open question how much longer employers with a social conscience, such as Starbucks and Costco, can continue to offer coverage.

Fortunately, there is a fix for this problem—single-payer national health insurance (NHI) along the lines of the Conyers bill (HR 676) in Congress with 93 co-sponsors. Both employers and employees would pay less than they do now for better coverage. By eliminating the waste and inefficiencies of 1,300 private insurers, NHI will save more than $300 billion a year and still guarantee coverage of all Americans. The differences in overhead between private and public financing are striking—Medicare operates as a single-payer system with an overhead of about 3 percent, compared to an average of 18 percent for commercial carriers and 26.5 percent for investor-owned Blue Cross plans. Under HR 676 employers will pay a payroll tax of about 7.7 percent (less than their average of 8.5 percent now) while individuals will pay an income tax averaging about 2 percent for most taxpayers.

NHI will not solve all of the problems now being confronted by Starbucks and other U. S. employers, but will go a long way to level the playing field in a global economy. We can no longer afford the skyrocketing costs of private health insurance for less reliable and more skimpy coverage each year. Employers and employees alike, as well as our country, will win with NHI.

Howard Schultz has built a legendary company with a social conscience. But the landscape and business environment is changing fast. He can add to his legacy by taking a leadership role in helping other employers to see NHI as an advantage to their future.

________________________________________________________________________________________

John Geyman is the Author of Shredding the Social Contract: The Privatization of Medicare, Common Courage Press, 2006, and Shredding the Social Contract: The Privatization of Medicare, Common Courage Press, 2006, Use only with permission of the Author.


Buy These Books: http://www.commoncouragepress.com/index.cfm?action=book&bookid=376

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Depth charge, red-eye, black-eye, I'M AWAKE!!!!!!!!

Thanks, doc, I needed that. Great information and a credible case-in-point about why the business community should be clamoring for passage of HR 676 along with the rest of us.

"We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation or injury when we do not protest against it." Lillian Wald,(1867-1940), American Social Reformer/Founder Public Health Nursing

Look deeper

well written post. Just want to mention that administrative cost ratio for medicare (as a %) would be a lot higher if it covered all people, since most people's healthcare costs are a lot less than what medicare covers today. Avg medicare person costs may $6000 a year, so as a % the admin costs lool low. If medicare covered all, then average cost because of the change in demographics would be maybe $2000, so the same admin cost will look higher as a percentage. So expect that number to go up.

Moreover, private insurers have to pay premium tax, so that causes the difference between medicare and private industry to be even higher.

In addition, policy-making bodies that govern Medicare and CMS are not considered, but they would be in priviate admin costs, increasing the differential.

In addition, Medicare contracts out most of it's administration, so the private sector has the added burden of creating and designing and executing all the things that Medicare wants, increasing it's administrative costs.

in addition, the cost of the IRS function applicable to generating revenue for Medicare is not considered, but the private sector billing departments are, increasing the differential.

in addition, the private sector develops more intensive medical management programs... the kind that Medicare has slowly adopted and like the GAO now recommends that medicare implement for high tech imaging... which control costs but people tend to dislike because they feel it interferes, regardless of the sound science it is based on.

Regarding the elimination of waste by prohibiting private insurance, you do not change the rate of healthcare inflation, which is the problem. The real way that single payer would control costs is to limit the increase in unit costs (doctor pay) and utilization of services/new technology (medical necessity review). And Medicare does a horrible job of even doing that (medicare is bankrupt in 2019). Right now medicare can get away with limiting unit costs because doctors can make up what they are being underpayed in the private market. When that goes away, the doctors will suffer, which is why the AMA usually opposes these type of plans.

?doctors can make up what...

"...they are being underpaid in the private market?"
Paul, do you mean from CASH patients? Very few of those left, and there's 47 million people who matter, who live here, whose lives are precious and tenuous and unjustly cut short because they live without access to health care. They shouldn't have to go begging and hold bake sales to get it. They shouldn't have to go shopping for it and be sold a bill of goods and a policy that isn't worth the paper it's written on when it comes to providing medically necessary care and preventing financial ruin. The private market is a failure as a healthcare delivery system!

The problem for the majority of solo and group practices is that they aren't being paid by insurers. Claims are routinely denied, and the payments that are received are forwarded only after months of phone calls and letters, and multiple requests for duplicate documentation of services provided. The amounts of those payments are almost always less than the negotiated amount due to capricious exclusions. The cost of the administrative staff to deal with the insurers' bureaucracy has exceeded the expected usual and customary reimbursement. The insurers keep the premiums, and the providers are left holding the bag. And, the patients who thought they had "insurance" are being double crossed and left without a shield.

So what is happening now is that you're likely to walk in to a doctor's office and see a sign, "We no longer accept: BLUE CROSS/ANTHEM, BLUESHIELD, PACIFICARE/UNITED HEALTH, AETNA..."
You'll also notice that there's only a receptionist, a couple of medical assistants, one bookkeeper/accountant, and the physicians left working in the office. GONE are the five other people they used to employ to deal with the unruly, fraudulent insurer's claims denial bureaucracy. The physicians are able to make a decent living because they've eliminated 1/3rd of their administrative overhead; they're happy to take MediCare patients--MediCare pays them; and, there's a couple of employer based, self-insured PPO good-citizens who are left in the world too, but those are really few and far between. And, of course, a few patients can and do pay cash for routine office visits if they can afford their co-pays and deductibles.

It's hard for me to ignore your claim of clairvoyancy, Paul, and your proclamation that "medicare is bankrupt in 2019." NOT if we the people repeal Part D, and allow MediCare to use bulk purchasing power to lower drug costs; and not if we the people require our legislators to do the work of the people, and for the people, by insisting they rebuild the public health service infrastructure.

It starts by recognizing that we are the only major industrialized nation in the world that doesn't collectively provide an equitable, accessible national health service to care for it's most precious resource, the people who live here. It starts with us living up to the universal ethical premise that it's not right for anyone to make a profit at the expense of the sick and injured. It starts with the recognition that early access to health care services results in early intervention and less costly treatment that prevents more costly hospitalization and emergency room visits down the road. It starts with an equitable tax distribution system, and with responsible budget priorities. It starts by not subsidizing private insurers, and by putting the money saved back into providing actual health care.

MediCare can do an even better job, if it's not tossed out on the rocks to wither and be eaten alive by the corporate-backed, SiCKO "golden ticket holders" in Congress. Rumors and predictions about it's demise are premature. MediCare can be expanded and improved; HR 676 now has 93 Congressional co-sponsors! We the people, intend to toss the corporate servants out of office, and elect public servants who will do the work of the people, for the benefit of the people who pay their salaries.

"We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation or injury when we do not protest against it." Lillian Wald,(1867-1940), American Social Reformer/Founder Public Health Nursing

Right on, and I think I need a cup of coffee

All I truly know is that after being a responsible citizen and working my tail end off since I was 12 -- and always having insurance (health, car, disability, life and a healthcare savings account) -- I lost everything. Cancer. And on my darker days, I wonder if it would have been better to not be treated at all...

Then I get angry and snap out of it and know that even though I have to work 20 hours a day almost every day to make a dent in the work I need to do to make single payer a reality, I will not be a death toll statistic willingly.

I will never own a house again and probably never even a new car -- but I will see the day when we finally declare healthcare as a basic human right in my United States of America. And I hope I can celebrate with a cinnamon dolce latte with a few friends who fought the fight with me.

corrections

I didn't say docs are underpaid in the private market. I said that the federal govt underpays them and they make it up by charging more in the private market... ( I think you just misinterprested my sentence.)

2019 reference: I'm talking about the Medicare Hospital Trust Fund. It has nothing to do with medicare part D or negotiating lower drug prices etc. It is simply the costs for admissions vs. the tax revenue coming in. And it will be bankrupt in 2019 without changes. not trying to be clairvoyant... just giving you the projections from the people who actually run medicare and the GAO.

profit

"universal ethical premise that it's not right for anyone to make a profit at the expense of the sick and injured"

doctors treat and they earn money for their services, hence profit at the expense fo the sick. is this unethical? I don't understand.

if I invent a new device that helps people rehabilitate from injuries, is it unethical to earn profit from selling my invention? I just don't get this train of thought.

and insurers provide a service by the assumption of risk, in advance of knowing if you'll be sick or not. There are both non-for-profit and for-profit insurers. insurance provides greater access to people who otherwise would not able to afford paying doctors directly. There's nothing unethical about insuring someone and earning money for doing it. i think where people get hung up is that since healthcare cost inflation is large, someone needed to step in and offer cheaper policies, using rules and restrictions, which people don't understand. They just see the 'hassle' of having the company that pays the bills step in and ensure there is justification.

You don't understand wages, labor, and capital?

Let's talk a minute about sustainability and healthcare, since we're on the subject. I'm a nurse, not an economist, but I've included a couple of links below to articles that explain the economics. From my perspective, I think Ghandi put it succinctly, "There is enough to meet everyone's need, but not enough to meet everyone's greed."

During the past five years, insurers and employers have clamped spending by forcing patients to shoulder more costs in the form of higher deductibles, coinsurance and co-payments. further cost-shifting to patients no longer practical. The cost of health insurance has increased by 78 percent since 2001, according to the latest Kaiser Family Foundation report.

Affordability already troubles many families and business. Health insurance costs, even at their lowest growth rate, climbed at more than twice the 2.6 percent overall rate of inflation. Health costs also are outstripping gains in worker earnings, which are growing about 3.7 percent a year.

What we need is fundamental change; MediCare and the VA system are run as a social service, not to generate a profit for shareholders. Doctors and nurses deserve fair wages in exchange for their labor; health care is not a product, but a service. Hospitals deserve fair reimbursement so they can pay wages to workers who provide care to the patients. That's not happening now. Of course they have to budget to meet the needs of the patients, and that includes hiring enough nurses to provide the care. Also, they must pay their bills, like water, gas, and electricity, which is required to facilitate the provision of care. That extra, above and beyond wages, is not profit at the expense of the patients and the staff. It's profit that serves the needs of the patients and the staff. That's the overhead we need to be talking about.

Public service versus corporate greed. The market system has failed to provide better benefits to our population, than the national health plans in the other top industrialized nations in the world. We rank 37th in leading health indicators according to the world health organization.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/may/our_health_care_syst.php

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/november/markets_have_failed_.php

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/june/paying_more_getting.php

"We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation or injury when we do not protest against it." Lillian Wald,(1867-1940), American Social Reformer/Founder Public Health Nursing

sustainability

I agree with most of what you said... but there is a difference between making a profit and greed.

At any rate, sure providers need fair reimbursement. medicare underpays them and in order to stay in business and get new technology, etc. providers negotiate with the private sector to obtain rates that are higher to make up the difference.

Your focus on overhead does not address sustainability. most of the cost, and most of the cost increases go to medical services - not to overhead and profit. roughly speaking providers recieve 85% of the pie. The growth rate of this chunk is the problem. the growth rate of the overhead and profit is in the low single digits. if you elinimate profit and move toward a more efficient system then you've shrunk the costs once, but have not done anything to reduce the growth in costs for medical services which are the root issue. To combat this, a single payer system would do two things: limit increases in unit costs to providers and limit the growth in services rendered. Medicare has not done either very well, so a sustainable single payer system would have be even stingier/more aggressive in controlling cost growth.

My main contention is that by moving to a 'more efficient' system you give up flexibility and incentive, and by shifting 100% of providers revenue to come from the government will put them in a severly difficult situation to stay afloat let alone try to do research and advance medicine. Medicare right now has been outspending its budget and congress keeps passing the buck, deferring the fiscal problem.

The sustainability is the issue. And to put such a system in place would require a huge new tax burden... but that's a whole other big debate on wealth transfer, etc.

of course it could be done, but I just want to hear honest discussion about the pros and cons. usually either side is just ideological and doesn't consider the tradeoffs involved. People need to understand that the major beefs with private insurance companies (the cost control measures) will only be magnified by a single payer solution.

Need more info from you

Paul,

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere, but please repeat for me your areas of expertise and your affiliations.

Much of what you are offering reminds me of a book I once read in college that pointed out how even the most trusted statistics can be manipulated by those who wish to do so. And in order to put some context to it, I'd like to know a little of your background.

As a patient, I can speak to what I see and have experienced as a patient. And it isn't very pretty. As a citizen, I can speak to what I have experienced working multiple jobs and doing the middle-class life as I thought I was expected to do. College, kids, work and then more work if circumstances required. Harder work to get the kids educated... that all was no surprise to me. It was tough, but I never expected a soft life. I paid my share of taxes -- and certainly paid salaries, benefits and all sorts of perks for others -- of a magnitude I can only imagine.

But then my husband got sick, and I did too. I kept working through all of it...even took a call from the boss while still on a morphine drip right out of surgery. That's what was required, and I did it.

I did not, however, expect to be blown apart financially and lose my home because we got sick. And the stress of that and the physical demands of moving three times while still bandaged following cancer surgery and abdominal hernia surgery, of living out of one's car, of living in cheap motel rooms and still playing the right sorts of games so no one would know was enormous. And all of this was unfolding as I held health insurance through my employer group coverage.

I need to hear from you what qualifies you to tell me that you truly believe that the experience I had and for which I will now pay for the rest of my life matched my crime: the crime of getting sick in America.

I need not use any emotional appeal to lay out my reality -- the facts suffice. The system is so terribly broken. And our people are being broken by it. And if we do not fix it, our society will be broken too. We are better people than this. At least I was raised to be.

numbers

Don't worry, I'm not manipulating numbers. It's pretty simple.
most of the healthcare economy is spent on actual medical care (roughly 85%) and 15% goes to administration and profit. Costs for medical care goes up several times inflation, due to increased services, increasesd unit costs/new technology, etc. Costs for administration and services goes up around general inflation.

if you could theoretically eliminate all overhead and profit without any other consequence, you'd have that 15% to spend on other things, or a overall pie would shrink. But the growth rate would still be high. Two or three years later of 8-10% growth and the pie is back to it's old size.

you did not have a crime you simply became sick. it's something that's been happening to humans, animals, and plants for a very long time. We are so advanced now, due the rise of capitalism and personal liberty, that we've figured out all kinds of ways to treat disease and often prolong life, but of course those who know how to do this, the doctors, expect to be paid for their time. You cannot force them to do anything to do, as long as we have personal liberty.

Health Care Profit

'...most of the healthcare economy is spent on actual medical care (roughly 85%) and 15% goes to administration and profit'

The profit is billions of dollars. Those billions of dollars need to be spent on actual patients for actual care. Not profit. Profit has no place in a health care system.

That's what's wrong with our current system.

Anti-capitalist

Profit has just as much place in health care as it does in any industry or service. If profit had no place, then do you think we would have such advanced technology as MRIs and CT Scans, and drugs that combat rare diseases? Does someone decide to make and sell neonate incubators simply because they love and care for their fellow human beings? No, it's because of the promise of profit. Did stores like Wallmart and CVS start offering clinics so that they'd feel better about their contribution to society? Again, no. The rise of capitalism is responsible for all the wonderful things we enjoy today. Not only has America improved it's own lot in the world, but everyone else has benefitted from our advances as well, as technology and know-how spreads across the globe through trade.

When you think about it, it's pretty amazing that we accomplished so much, and we rose to prominence without social security, welfare, food stamps, healthcare insurance, farming subsidies, airline bailouts, etc. all because of capitalism, personal liberty, and limited government. It's only been recently that we've begun to trade off liberty for security, and in the process have lost the incentive to improve since someone else is now expected to take care of us, and meanwhile other countries are turning themselves into superpowers while we protest about not having enough handed to us.

Maybe you're unsatisfied with the services you get from those you interract with in the healthcare system (including insurers) but don't blame profit for that. profit is what drives accoutability and innovation. The opposite stifles accountability and innovation. Are you more satisfied with the postal service than FedEx and UPS? Are you more satisfied with the DMV than Macy's? TSA than Apple? maybe these are incongruous examples, but the point is that profit-motivated individuals/companies serve us better than those who are disinterested wether they will receive anything based on the quality of their service. Our health care is advanced because of profit.

Assumption of risk? NOT! It's called, "cherry picking!"

Insurers are all about AVOIDANCE OF RISK. And, OMG, if one of their healthy premium payers happens to get sick, it's Recission Time. Or, it's delay approval until death do us part, (Nataline Sarkisyan, May she rest in peace!)

A lot of the population actually is at the lower-risk end of the healthcare continuum. It doesn't mean that there's no risk, but they are at lower risk. So when you hear that 20 percent of the population incurs 80 percent of the cost, that means that 80 percent of the population only incurs 20 percent of the cost.

HR 676: Everybody In, Nobody Out. A modest and fair tax that replaces premiums, co-pays, and deductibles.

According to Dr. Don McCanne, Senior Health Policy Fellow of Physicians for a National Health Plan, "If we are going to use the tax system to pay for health care anyway then why should we waste funds on the profoundly inefficient system of private health plans?

A universal risk pool that is equitably funded through the tax system is the most efficient and least expensive method of ensuring comprehensive coverage for everyone."

"We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation or injury when we do not protest against it." Lillian Wald,(1867-1940), American Social Reformer/Founder Public Health Nursing

not exactly

I think you're speaking solely about the individual market, which is a small minority of the industry.

In order for a assuming risk to work, you have to have a balance. if everyone was healthy then no one would buy the policy since you'd be charing for something they don't need. if everyone was sick, then the cost would be too high for anyone to purchase. Sustainability means having a balance of healthy and sick.

Recissions, as part of a voluntary contract, have specific terms of when they can be invoked. They have a valid purpose and as long as terms are known by both parties I see no problem with it. The valid purpose to ensure that the the voluntary contract was entered into by both parties with full relevant knowledge of each other. Recissions happen if it turns out that I hid information that would have affected somebody elses decision of whether to insure me or not.

And why should we be using the tax system at all to pay for healthcare. It's called involuntary exchange. Not much good happens from involutary exchange.

"You can't patent the sun"

When asked why he didn't seek a patent on the polio vaccine early on, Dr. Jonas Salk said without hesitation "You can't patent the sun". If he had patented it, he would have made billions in profit by restricting the program to only those children who could have afforded it. The public offered their children in schools, private and public, to stop a major killer, that crippled and maimed millions of U.S. children. Polio's victims included one of the great president's of the United States, FDR, who perhaps because of his experience and dependence on others to make one of the great come-backs of modern times, did more to promote the general welfare of America than any modern executive in our time. FDR used the government to put people back to work, gave our Veterens a G.I. bill that ensured home loans, free education and improved health care and used our tax dollars to rebuild roads, build public hospitals and schools, provide electricity to dirt poor farmers in the South through the TVA and lastly, workers in the CCC that cared for our natural resources and public parks.

Our government and Jonas Salk ended the scourge of polio epidemics because both saw the benefit of the public good ahead of the profitability of a vaccine that could easily have benefited only Salk and private industry at the expense of all. Paying taxes is part of our responsibilities as citizens and an early requirement of citizenship at the founding of our nation. As a citizen, I want to have my tax dollars pay for education, infrastructure, public parks and yes, healthcare that is for all. We have state programs in California especially for children, that work to end epidemics that we no longer have to worry about. They are free to families that qualify. They work.

As a nurse practitioner working with many physicians who work in public health largely because it is public, expanding and improving on medicare that is provided to all makes the most sense from a moral and ethical view. Denying people care and turning them away because they cannot pay is wrong. More people are being denied care by private insurance companies who are making record profits at their expense. People because of a growing list of pre-existing conditions can't get private insurance because they are poor risks. I had my own personal experience with a dear friend who was denied, denied and denied health insurance because she had a pre-existing non life=threatening condition. She paid out of pocket and wound up in an private ER and died because she wasn't treated in the same way that those with insurance were. That is not acceptable any more that it is acceptable to deny anyone who is sick care because they can't pay. The more citizens in that boat, and that boat is getting crowded, the more will promote single-payer and remove the insurance corporations out of the picture.

We use the tax system to pay for many things. FDR used it to pull the country out of a depression and fund post-war programs for millions of returning soldiers who needed jobs, healthcare and home loans. We can re-direct our taxes to fund a system for all. Most of us will not be able to pay for care and more of us will be left out. Yesterday, those of us after a year of Blue-Shield wound up with an increase of 9 dollars a pay check to 50 dollars a pay check with no increase in benefits. Blue-shield posted record profits last quarter.

It is time for insurance corporations to go. It is time for HR 676 or SB 840 to take care of all of us not just a few who can afford it. The former group is increasing at the expense of the latter. "You can't patent the sun" You shouldn't be able to make profit at the expense of the sick and the needy.

Just because

Salk relinquished his claim doesn't mean that people still weren't profitting. someone had to make it, package it, distribute it and administer it. They all got paid for doing that.

I don't think we're really talking about patent law here and what you can and cannot patent. I think you're talking about altruism versus self interest.

no doubt that altruism can make many good things happen, but only those who have aquired wealth have the luxury of altruism, to have enough to give a little up. moreover, self interest actually produces more good things than altruism. This is why america became the wealthiest nation in the world, and then became the most generous nation in the world.

And if i walk into a doctors office and say i need surgery on my arm, the doctor says okay that will cost you $750, and I say I can only willing to pay $400, then who is to blame? me or the doctor? how is that "wrong"? it is but one of many transactions. maybe somebody else is willing and able to pay the $750, but if nobody is, then the doctor will probably lower his prices... it's just the laws of supply and demand.

insurance unfortunately has the undesirable affect of reducing the price seen by the purchaser, sometimes to zero, which distorts good decision making. but the benefit is that now 100 people can afford most services versus the maybe only 10 who could without it.

keep it voluntary and stop stealing so much from my earnings.

$750 for arm surgery?" Altruists unite.

First, 750$ for arm surgery is pretty low ball and the illusion that either the doctor or the consumer sets the rates and can just go shopping for a better price down the block shows demonstrable ignorance of the system itself. If you have health insurance you are restricted to your provider and the provider network. You get the bill after the procedure and $750 is probably what a hospital would have charged you in the 1970's and certainly not now. Thinking that a patient can just shop around, that doctors can set the price or that the simple laws of supply and demand under the rubric of Adam Smith's invisible hand is magical thinking at best or denial at worst. The only thing 21st century corporate controlled insurance driven hands under-stand is the self-interest of their profit margins and their own self-interest is not in lowering prices to benefit the consumer who will be nickel and dimed to death. Without a lot of government over-sight, continuing the reign of corporate insurance controlled care will not bring down the cost of care. What it will do, if we continue down the road of privatization of all health care is more un-affordable care that most of us will use our credit cards for, out of control health care costs, continued privitization of the public sector whose own costs will increase as more patients fall into public programs and lastly, fewer providers in care. We will wind up with the concentration of control and wealth in fewer insurance companies' hands and with fewer choices. It will drive more doctors out of caring, more patients into poverty, destroy the public health sector as it is slowly privitized and in essence destroy us.

Adam Smith's idea of capitalism died somewhere in the mid-20th century and was replaced by corporatism (used to be called monopolies) where smaller groups of corporations, un-restrained by our government, will eventually run the health care system out of business and us into early graves. Our life expectancy has already dropped showing that the system isn't working for patients and an early warning sign of things to come. The primacy of caring has been replaced by huge profit margins as the self-interest motive and innovation in medicine replaced by what the market thinks is "profitable" not what protects us from disease and illness. It makes the social darwinism of the late 19th century look like child's play as more human beings are left out in the cold.
We need a new social contract with our government that guarantees care to all and eliminates corporate care that divides us into small pools of patients fighting each other for the scraps of care.

Yes, 19th and 20th century America produced a lot of wealth and innovation under Adam Smith's idea of the market place but it also produced industrial pollution and waste, unsafe working conditions, child labor, the exploitation and over-consumption of our natural resources here and abroad, and finally, the enslavement of whole populations of human beings in this country and over-seas that was devoid of all moral and ethical responsibility. That was until small groups of altruist citizens organized and called upon our consciences to end these practices that benefitted the few over the many. Our government and its courts after with a good dose of altruism stopped these immoral practices.

I have no doubt, with another good dose of altruism that we can put forward national health care for all based on HR 676 that removes insurance coporations from the equation. Altruists unite.

i disgaree

first of all, the $750 is simply illustrative. Second of all the reason people do not shop is because they have no incentive to since the price they pay is usually next to nothing, when covered by a third party. Third, if you have a policy that limits your choice of provider then that is a tradeoff voluntarily made. there are plenty of policies that do not place such strict limits on choice of provider.

And by the way how do you know that your provider is a good one? maybe it's because companies actually profit by putting a good credential checking process in place so that you don't have to. That's what I call 'value' and what you call useless overhead or evil profit.

Capitalism may or may not be dead, but the laws of supply and demand are as immutable as the law of gravity. When when the price drops to zero, then demand goes up beyond supply. then you have wait lines, or reduction in available services. you need to have the free market so that demand equals supply.

my maint point of contention is the new equalitarian ideology that everyone is supposed to obtain the same things in life and that we are going to use the government to forcibily attain that by stealing it from those who have earned for themselves, and giving it to those who cannot obtain it for themselves.

Market concerns and stealing from rich

I would like to respond to two points in your response to mine.

1. Allowing the market to regulate health care

If you want to talk about the immutable laws of supply and demand, then you must be aware of Adam Smith’s treatise on the Market, “The Wealth of Nations.” He argued for the law of the market to regulate price, supply, and demand. He said that there is an “invisible hand” that moves upon the market to bring everything into equilibrium.

However, just having private, for-profit businesses is not sufficient to bring this “invisible hand” into operation. There are a number of other conditions that must be met, most of which do not exist in our economy today. But one of them does exist, in the health care model, and that is “many small buyers.” Adam Smith explains that there must be many buyers, none of which can influence the market alone. If this rule were in place, as it is, then your hypothetical patient could not “shop around” for a cheaper price. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that $750 was the market price for this sort of surgery. Individual doctors would be able to perform all the surgeries they wanted for $750, and not one would have any economic reason to do the surgery for $500 for someone who walks into his (or her) office asking for a lower price.

This situation is more easily understood with something like apples. Lets assume that all apples are $1.50 a pound, and that markets can sell all their stock for $1.50 per pound. If you walked into the store and demanded to pay $1.25 per pound, they would turn you down, because they would have no economic reason to sell you apples for $1.25, when they know they will sell them for $1.50

Now, suppose something happens, and the price of apples rises to $5.00 a pound everywhere. Some people would still buy apples, some would buy less, and some would buy none at all, but might switch to pears. No one customer could demand a lower price. However, the store manager at some point would notice that most of his apples were not selling, and would lower the price. That is how the “invisible,” and I might add, “silent” hand works. Not by individuals complaining or negotiating, but simply by deciding to buy or not buy.

If the price of $5.00 a pound was really too high, it would come down to a reasonable price. If, however, the conditions under which apples were grown and marketed had changed so much that $5.00 was the only reasonable price for making a profit, then less efficient growers would stop growing apples, the price would stay at $5.00, the amount offered would be less, and the market would be at a new equilibrium.

This model doesn’t work with health care, however, because of the concept of “price elasticity.” That is a fancy term for saying a way of measuring how much the demand will go down when the price goes up. If a good or service is “highly elastic,” then a slight increase in price will cause the demand to drop drastically. For example, and I’m making this up, most lettuce sells for about the same price. If red leaf lettuce went up by $0.30 per head, people might just switch to romaine or green leaf lettuce, or butter lettuce. If the price of red leaf lettuce dropped by $0.30, many people might switch to it from the other lettuces.

But if a good or service is “highly inelastic,” then a change in price will have almost no effect on the number of units sold. Health care is very “price inelastic.” If a man needs heart surgery, he will have it, whether it costs him a $10 co-pay, or he has to mortgage his house for it. If a woman needs chemotherapy for cancer, she will get it, whether her insurance pays for it all, or she has to borrow $75,000 from credit cards at 21% interest. The only people who will drop out of the market, thereby reducing the demand, (though not the price), will be those so poor that they will actually die because they cannot afford it.

The market therefore cannot be depended up to regulate health care.

Prices have been brought down, but this has been down by forces that are counter to the market: price negotiations, whether by insurance companies or by governments. These negotiations break the market model, because there are no longer “many small buyers” who cannot affect the price of the market. With a government, or large health insurance companies, the “many small buyers” become a small number of large buyers who can put pressure on doctors to lower their price. If the price they demand is still reasonable and profitable for doctors, then the price goes down. If it is not a reasonable price, then many doctors will “opt out”of the negotiations, either by not accepting that particular insurance, or, in the extreme, by giving up their medical practice.

“Market forces” are not in effect right now. The health insurance companies have broken those forces. We understand that we may want someone to negotiate prices. The only question is: who? Private businesses or the government? Most countries have universal, single-payer insurance, and the doctors and government have learned to live together. The government has learned what is a fair price to pay doctors, and they do not have a problem with health care professionals leaving the field, as we do in this country under the health insurance companies, not just because of the prices they receive, but because of the restriction put on what patients they can treat, and how.

The health insurance companies are not interested in anything but their own profit. This profit motive has not brought about some ideal equilibrium in the market. Rather, it has driven up the price of insurance premiums so high that they are an unreasonable burden to individuals and business who pay them. At the same time, they have lowered the amount they are willing to pay to doctors and nurses. And, to make it worse, they often refuse to pay at all for health care that is needed by people. In many cases, the only reason that anyone gets health care at all is because of the altruistic motives of doctors and nurses, who work for free or reduced rates – the altruistic motive that you sneer at, but which saves lives.

2 Your contention that single-payer, universal health care is using “the government to forcibily attain that by stealing it from those who have earned for themselves, and giving it to those who cannot obtain it for themselves.”

There are some goods and services that need only be available to those who can afford them. If a woman only makes $35,000 a year teaching school, that person need not be given a Jaguar to drive. Let her settle for a Honda. If she can’t afford a three-month cruise to the Mediterranean, let her spend the summer gardening or reading books. If she can’t afford designer clothes on Rodeo Drive, let her shop at the Goodwill store. Society doesn’t suffer.

But we learned long ago that society benefits from making some goods and services available to all. For example: the fire department. At one time, at least in San Francisco, fire departments were for-profit enterprises, and homeowners paid premiums to them. If their house caught on fire, the fire department would come and put out the fire. But what about people who didn’t pay the premium, and whose house was right next to yours? The fire company would stand and watch their house burn down, and not do anything for you until yours started to burn. Would you not have been better off if there was a single, public fire department that would stop your neighbor’s fire before it harmed your house? Yes, indeed. Which is why public fire departments, funded by taxes became the norm. It is the same with police.

The same with public schools. Why should someone who can afford to put his children through expensive private schools – or for that matter, someone who has not children at all – be required to pay taxes to support public schools. The answer is very simple. We all benefit from an educated population. Persons with a high school degree are better workers and far less likely to commit crimes. Compare the cost of keeping someone in public school for a year to the cost of keeping him in prison, and you will see what a good deal it is for everyone.

Health care is the same. We all benefit from a healthy general population. Even if someone can afford to pay for private doctors for herself and her family from birth until death, it is in her interest to contribute to universal health care for everyone. Do we really want sick people to go untreated, particularly those with communicable diseases? Do we want them picking our lettuce, washing our restaurant dishes, sitting next to us on public transportation or in the movies? Do we want our children to run into sick children at the playground or amusement park? Do we really think that if an epidemic of tuberculosis or hepatitis breaks out among the poor or uninsured, that we will never be infected? For our own health, we need to provide health care for everyone, just as we need to provide fire fighters for everyone, police, and schools.

There are ways to keep the cost of health care low, and most of them are preventative care. Help prevent obesity, and start them exercising. Help people stop smoking. Stop putting cancer-causing poisons on our food, and grow it organically. Encourage businesses to give people more time off, to reduce stress. Anyone can add to this list.

But when someone is sick that person should receive good health care, whether it is antibiotics for the flue or chemotherapy for cancer, whether that person is rich or poor. It is the decent thing to do. It is the compassionate thing to do. And if decency and compassion don’t move you – it is very often the thing to do to keep you healthy.

Healthcare does not follow supply and demand...it follows price

I have been reading the discussion with interest. While I agree that$750 was an illustrative example for arm surgery, I do not agree with the supply demand scenarios.

In case of healthcare, it is required commodity. So, irrespective of cost, people would need it. Let us think that healthcare is free..do you mean then that the healthy people will show up at the doctor without reason?

If you really think it is open to supply and demand, let us open to global competition..which might already be happening, and you will find out the prices will drop. But not alot as there is floor price as in the global economy to Lowest cost country will drive the price.

In the short term, it will control cost. In the long term, it will come back up again.

The best way to make it affordable to all is to make sure that we have universal healthcare by taxes, control doctors visit by co-pay, and most importantly, cut the waste. There are more waste in healthcare than any other industry.

All these new machines were supposed to improve productivity-that should have created cost saving. It did not happen at least to the consumers. These machines were to improve quality..our ife expectancy went down.

So, there is something fundamentaly broken in the healthcare. It is the policy, the waste, the need for profit, the law suits.....

We need to fix it. It is a national security issue. For those who do not get it, need to think twice. You may have insurance today but your turn will come..and will come soon.

Let us stop arguing and get behind the universal healthcare funded by tax and we can create proper governance to reduce over utilization. We can promote healthy living.

Your arguments about the extra costs private companies bare

emphasize the need to get them out of the system so that those dollars can be dedicated to the actual health care of Americans needing it.

Health care for all. No excuses.
www.nurseconscience.blogspot.com

you're only looking at a minor portion of the costs..

priviate companies of course have admin costs that a single payer system does not, however, the net total cost *all else being equal* is lower. Take for instance, Medicare Part D. Today it costs about half as much as they originally thought it would and competition is credited with a large piece of this. The remainder is mostly due to more generics being available than projected, and greater generic use. Both of these favorable developments would have been non-existent or a mere fraction of what they really are without a profit motive.

So in effect the total cost, including medical services, would be higher, except for the fact that a single agency will determine price increases and what services will be available, rather than letting local market conditions, individual preferences, etc. make those decisions for themselves. I do not believe that central planning of the economy in the end makes better decisions about how best to allocate our capital for scare resources. That is why I oppose attempts to have a single payer make those decisions.

Paul

I can just tell you're a conservative republican.
What will you say when those scary scary pro-government democrats take over Congress and the White House and pass national healthcare legislation?
I can just imagine all those conservative talk show hosts and the conservative public whining and complaining the fact of how it was a bad idea to have single payer, etc.
Get ready and brace yourself, because you and the rest of your so-called "free market" cronies will soon come to an end... I can't wait.

Medicare Part D- Prohibits importation of the cheapest drugs

I use generics in the public sector whenever possible unless patients have a problem with them and then I switch. Under Medicare Part D, our government is prohibited from direct negotiations with the Big Pharma companies and importing the cheapest drugs from Canada's publically administered "Medicare System" where their system covers prescription drugs for all and insures all. Use of Generics is a good thing and would be even better if we ended the monopolization through extension of patents on drugs in perpetuity that Big Pharma continues to do.

Our costs of prescription drugs under our own version of a "Medicare for All program would be less for all of us not just a few patients who might be benefitting under Medicare Part D and largely that is due to generic use.

In another example, pro-choice congressional women, in both the Republcan and Democratic party, are adament on introducing more legislation that will stop the discrimination of offering some prescription drugs over others by private insurance plans that will cover drugs like "Viagra" and not contraception where women will pay more. I often will cover, under our public system, and eligibilize patients who cannot afford their oral contraceptions because their plans and even alternative plans don't cover these very important class of medications. If your going to say its their problem, no it is our problem. Paying 30$ a month is a barrier to women who need these drugs and bear the burden of pregnancy. Pregnancy and the problems of dysmenorhea are a lot more expensive than people realize. Expense of contraception under private plans is a barrier for younger women and their partners. It is an economic burden when women miss work and even greater when they leave the work force.

I would also add, that women in the U.S. face more problems getting their prescriptions covered by private insurance plans and that coupled to a Republican dominated, anti-choice congress has stiffled innovation in women's health. In those countries, like Britian, France and Canada, drugs like ECP (emergency contraception), the Mirena IUD and lastly, Implanon have been availible for a lot longer than here. I would also add, that these same countries have national health care for all and women who need these medications get them for no cost. If your going to say it is just because of the over-regulation by our government that prevents the use of these drugs, sorry again. It is pure politics and discrimination by anti-choice forces that stmy these drugs from their use and a health insurance industry bent on charging women more for classes of drugs they need and use. In addition, I found that nurse practitioners under their NHS, cover home visits to women using contraception and even covers "PMS/menopausal society" visits that have reduced the number of women giving up on methods to alleviate these problems in women's health like the mirena or continuous dosing of pills like yaz where menstral cycles are elimated altogether

The best way to end discrimination in the costs of these drugs for all of us and improve access is a Medicare for All plan like HR 676, which eliminates discrimination in drug pricing by insurance plans, uses generics like the public sector and ends price gouging by Big Pharma by having the government directly negotiate the prices like Canada, France and the UK.